Embracing the Life You have Been Gifted.

[00:00:00] Christy: Hello, everyone. We’re so glad to have you back that you joined us again. I am Christy

[00:00:07] Grace: and I’m Grace, and you’re listening to,

[00:00:09] Christy: “The Thanks Mom Podcast”. Thanks for coming back. Folks. Glad that you’re here, grace and I haven’t we just say, and we haven’t talked in about five days.

[00:00:18] Grace: Yeah. It’s a long time. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, it’s been a little bit. We just had Palm we’re recording and holy week we just had Palm Sunday. Mom, I haven’t even gotten to talk to you tell you how the Poles do Palm Sunday. It’s crazy. They dye their palms because they don’t grow here. They don’t have Palm trees.

Right. So there’s so many colorful. They just decorate them with all these flowers. Like there’s barely any palms in them and you just bring them to Mass and get them blessed. It’s like basically a bouquet.

It was so cool. Yeah. So we got to process from outside here at the JPII center, it was cool.

[00:00:57] Christy: And did they knock on the door?

 The old school [00:01:00] would that the priest would be outside and profess and the doors to the church would be locked. And with the entrance crucifix, they would knock upon the door.

[00:01:08] Grace: Yeah, no, they didn’t do that. The doors were open. We just walked from one side of the, outside the church, around to the front door and what, right down the aisle.

But the Bishop was there, so I got to process in with the Bishop. So that’s pretty cool.

[00:01:20] Christy: So I did show your picture to people because they were all interested. So our last night. I think we got talking about, cause we just traveled home from Hilton head, South Carolina, where we spring break almost every year.

And so we got home yesterday afternoon, so we did Palm Sunday on the road and. Which was fine, but really small little parish in the middle of Kentucky. And they processed into, and we were running in a little late, like right time. So your brother, your little brother and sister were very confused, like why we were holding these up.

And then we weren’t really long gospel. So my seven year old is [00:02:00] first grade, so he’ll make, you know reconciliation first communion next year. So he’s right at that point of trying to discover everything. And then dad last night was reading something on Twitter or whatever, and he’s like, so how did your.

Day of free sword play during church go or something that is so true. It’s always like, here, hold these things. Now don’t hit anyone with them and don’t poke each other with them and don’t fight with it. And then you end up and then all of the sudden, Sophie is like, she’s three. She’s like, oh, there’s two of them.

And she’s like, Ooh.

[00:02:36] Grace: Oh my gosh.

[00:02:36] Christy: She’s splitting them. And I’m like, so then we’re in a parish where we don’t know anyone. So yeah, I was really like, “nope, sit here, do this. Like, that’s different in your home parish when every, you know, everybody, they’re all kind of doing it. You’re just trying to not be distracting.

But this one was a vigil Mass with not very many people there and they were all older and we were definitely by far the only one who had kids under the [00:03:00] age of 10 or 13, but it went well. And it was fine, but yeah, they were very enthralled, but I was excited. So did you just wave them or I thought you said at one point you were going to throw them or did I say that?

[00:03:15] Grace: No. I mean, it was kind of hard to follow exactly what was happening because it’s all in Polish, but we were outside. I mean, I knew generally what they were saying. Cause I had the. I had the readings and prayers that you do for Palm Sunday, like on my app or whatever. Cause I don’t have my magazine cause they don’t mail it to me here in Poland, but it’s okay.

And so I’m always like, I promise I’m reading the readings. I’m not texting during mass, believe me. But

I know I was like after COVID, when you weren’t allowed to like have a book, it’ll be fine, but. Yeah. So I knew kind of what prayers they’re doing. They just did them all outside. Everyone was laughing cause it was really windy. And so like all the priest vestments are like flashing around, like you can just hear it.

Like the, the alter server is holding microphone in front of the Bishop and you just hear through his, like, he’s trying to say his Polish. Like there’s just a whole thing. [00:04:00] Yeah. It ended up being fine. So everyone’s laughing a little bit and then we processed in and then we sat down. Yeah. And just having the normal mass and.

Incense and everything. And there’s like probably six priests, maybe 5% of Bishop. I don’t know. It was cool. I got some videos, so you’ll see later, I haven’t gone through them yet.

[00:04:18] Christy: Did you go into Krakow for it ?Or was it?

[00:04:21] Grace: So we stayed here? So I don’t know how much I’ve said on the podcast. So I live at the JP II sanctuary, like dedicated to John Paul, the second outside of the city center of Krakow.

And there’s a chapel at the center. And so I just want to here for mass this weekend. So yeah, I’m going to make like a schedule this week for all the Trudeau masses and figure out what’s churches I’m going to where. Cause there’s just so many options to be cool. Yeah.

[00:04:45] Christy: So St. Andres shout out to our friends the St. Andre’s, the Flickenger’s, all the people we were with, they were very excited that you’re going to get to be there for Easter. And then at the Shrine of Divine Mercy!

[00:04:57] Grace: I will be at shrine of divine mercy for Divine Mercy [00:05:00] Sunday.

[00:05:00] Christy: Okay, so awesome.

So we have a very special guest today. Would you like to introduce her Grace?

[00:05:08] Grace: Yes, we have Mary Lenaburg on today. I stumbled across Mary. Mary, you were a guest on Many Hail Mary’s, and heard your whole story about your daughter, Courtney.

And I just like fell in love with just that story. And It was during advent because you were asking for prayers to put in the stocking for her. And I was very touched by that. And so it kind of followed you in your journey since then. And my sister got me your book for Christmas, so I’ll have to read it. It’ll be fun. But yeah, I’ve just been very touched by your, like your ministry and everything you do. And so we reached out to see if you’d want to chit chat with. You want to just kind of introduce yourself a little bit?

[00:05:43] Mary: Sure. First of all, I’ll say the noise you hear behind me is the six month old puppy chew toy. You know, sounds squeaky.

It’s not me. There’s action happening here.

[00:05:55] Grace: We have kids come on all the time,

[00:05:58] New Speaker: So I’m, I’m [00:06:00] delighted to be here with both you Christy and Grace. And so I’m Mary Lenaburg, I live in Northern Virginia, right outside of Washington, DC. And I’ve been married.

This August will be 34 years to my husband, Jerry. And thank you. We were blessed with four souls, two that we lost to miscarriage. And two, we got to hold and love. Our son, Jonathan is a newlywed and he is going to be 33 this fall and then our Daughter Courtney was with us for 22 years before God called her home and that’s possible.

So yeah, I grew up the second of eight kids. I am You know, a big Catholic family. My mom was a hundred percent German. She grew up in Michigan and Detroit. So we’ve got family all over there. And then my dad grew up all over the United States. My, my grandfather was in construction and so he is one of seven.

So my mom was one of six. They got married, they both seriously dog. They, they both, this [00:07:00] is going to be the most unique interview ever. Thank you. Leave it alone. Good job. So they you know, they were both raised Catholic. They were, they met during the Vietnam war when my mom was in the Navy as was my father.

And so they met overseas and they knew each other for four months before they got married. So they were, you know, 27 and 24. I think they knew they knew what they wanted. They knew who they were. And. And so, you know, they got married and came back to the United States and had eight kids in 10 years. So they were a little busy.

Yeah. I have six brothers and a sister and they’re all married. My sister is the only one, not married and she’s a teacher. And she has lots and lots of kids, you know, spiritual motherhood is beautiful to behold. So yeah, I’ve just been, I’ve been very blessed. I mean, we’ve been through a lot with our daughter Courtney, when she was born, she was.

And then on the day of her baptism, when she was five weeks old, she had her first [00:08:00] grand mal seizure and she would continue to have them for the rest of her life sometimes 20 or 30 a day. And so she had an allergic reaction to medication when she was seven months old and that gave her a brainstem seizure, which stopped all development from that way forward.

So for the rest of her life, she was critically blind wheelchair bound. Non-verbal. Although, she sounded like Chewbacca when she was hungry. So she got her point accross, the way she knew how, and she never walked, she never talked, you know, I never heard, I love you, mom. I never heard the complaints of teenagers either, so that was good.

But you know, she, we had quite the journey with her and the Lord revealed so much through her. You know, Courtney was never able to do anything, but give and receive love. And in the end, you and I are called to the same task to give and receive love. And so she did it perfectly within her abilities.

You know, a lot of people, they look at our life and they’re like, she’s been in heaven now for seven years [00:09:00] and they’re like, gosh, Mary, that’s such a heavy burden to carry. Well, that’s not wrong. Yes. It was a heavy burden to carry. And our days were we’re very much in crisis. You know, I lived in a mobile ICU unit.

That’s just how it was, but that was our life. And so it became normal to us. And the rhythms of our day became normal to us. Now, when someone from the outside would step in, they would be like, I don’t even understand how you do this. Well, you weren’t asked to do it. I was asked. And so what, you know, a lot of people ask me now they’re like, Mary, what would you tell others?

About special needs families. And it’s very simple, love them. You know, it’s not about you come in and serve. As you said, we’re recording this during holy week. And I read the scriptures from this morning and the gospel this morning is Mary of Bethany pouring out the Nard over Jesus. Yes. You know, giving of herself, the most extravagant thing, she owned the most beautiful thing she owned [00:10:00] and she poured it out for him.

She gave it away. ’cause that’s what you do with love. You give it away. And a lot of us you know, like Christy and your motherhood and Grace in your student life, you give it away quietly. You know, it’s not necessarily seen or acknowledged or there’s no fanfare. It’s just done. And that’s actually what Christ did.

That’s what our lady did, you know, think of her life. You only hear from her a few times in scripture, but the rest of the time she was loving. And she was caring and she was sacrificing joyfully. Because that’s what we’re called to do. So has it been difficult? Sure. Grief is never an easy thing to lose a child is not how it’s supposed to be.

It’s not the correct order of things. But because of the sin of our first parents, death exists in the world, however, we have the great consolation of having a Saint intercede for us. It’s why, when Grace had mentioned the prayers, every advent we have Courtney’s prayer stocking, it’s her literal Christmas [00:11:00] stocking that we.

With every prayer request we receive. And throughout advent, we pray the family rosary every night for those requests. And we’ve done this now for six years and seven, almost seven years now. And. It’s beautiful. You get these emails of marriages and children that have left. The church have come back and cars have been repaired and financial difficulties restored and babies being born and conceived.

And it’s just beautiful to witness what your child who happens to be a Saint with a small S can do from heaven. She did the same while she was here. We just didn’t know it.

[00:11:44] Christy: Right. Oh, that’s beautiful. I, I followed some of your story and, you know, pieced it together, but thank you for sharing that is just really beautiful. And I think I’m learning more about special needs.

We’ve [00:12:00] had some more mental health struggles within our family. I have a nephew with special needs who has a very rare disorder and I was so blessed to just spend a week with him and see we don’t they live about an hour from us and we don’t see. You know, all that often. And, and he was a miracle baby in of his life alone, and then came to find that he has a very rare disorder and our family’s been last year was able to actually, our alms was letting my SIS not letting, but she was here with my nephew for some six weeks of intensive therapy in here in our city.

And. And we are just like the going back and forth and hour. And she has an infant who will now he’s going to be too. But so she has our special needs, lovely nephew and then another little one. And and then my brother lives about an hour away with my niece and, you know, so they were like the idea of going back and forth for this long therapy was [00:13:00] just insane.

We’re family, of course you stay here. And this was the second time she actually had, but this, it felt perfectly aligned with lent. And and since we’re recording during holy week and talking about this, it just seems so fitting of what you’re saying of how we just love. And all my nephew can do is learn to love.

I love how you said that. Like just how it was. It’s perfectly. We’re called to do that. But people with special needs do it perfectly because that’s all they know to do and how they learn to communicate. And it was great to see my children just open up and just be like, this is what we do for family. And this can be our alms that our family, just, this is their home.

And we are when they are here, we will serve so that your aunt can have a break as she needs. And we can take care of our nephews because she doesn’t have the support of her husband being here every night. You know, it’s not very feasible to go back and forth even though it’s not that far. But then to be back here at eight in the morning with a very intensive schedule and come back, and it was beautiful to just see how [00:14:00] my children formed this connection with their nephews as well as just were like, yes, Oh, sorry, my nephews.

Yes, but it was it’s great. And so we’ve been, we’ve had some experience in our own family of learning about those things. And the more I learn about them, the more I see that everyone has those challenges, not at the degree, but that we all have to do that. And I like how you say it just becomes, this is normal for us.

And then yes, you sit up into this and it doesn’t seem obviously like how could we do that? But to who much is given much is expected, of course, but also there’s grace there that God intended this for you, Mary God. For me, Christy, for my, my brother. And sister-in-law not for someone else coming into that situation.

But what we can learn and what we can share, isn’t shared, and it needs to be shared because so many people are dealing with that. If it’s [00:15:00] struggling or if it’s going smoothly or however it’s going, but it doesn’t get talked about. And

[00:15:04] Mary: that’s how I entered into the whole. Online space was in 2007.

We were actually going to lose our home. So with the medical debt is extraordinary with these medically fragile, you know, severely disabled children. And everybody thinks, oh, you go on, you know, the government will help you. And all of that, no, that’s not how it works. You know, there’s a lot of misconceptions there.

So we never qualified for any of that help. So we were taking

And we were taking it on ourselves, and we had to get a wheelchair ban and that second mortgage was crippling us. And so this was before Go Fund Me. This is before, I mean, Literally just started. So there was you know, you see all of that today. None of that existed then. So a friend of ours had asked us, you know, we, we want to help you.

And so we did, they did what we call friends, giving. They wrote a letter and they sent it to everybody, sent it to their Christmas lists, you know? And [00:16:00] we said the divine mercy we call the divine mercy novena Courtney’s novena because.

Nothing was happening. And we were like, well, we received a couple of hundred dollars, which was such a relief to us. We can pay, you know, that month’s mortgage and this, you know, that kind of thing. And I thought, if this is all the Lord allows, then praise God. He’ll give us the answers to figure out what comes next.

How do we have to handle this? And because my husband worked for the government and he worked for three letter agency that you couldn’t declare bankruptcy. So we had to figure out another way to do this. He could lose his job. We did that. And we said the novena and on the eighth day of the novena, everything just broke open and people were so incredibly generous.

And the main thing they said was you’ve never allowed us to help. This is the first time you’re allowing help. I’m reminded of mother Teresa, who said, in order to learn charity, someone must first be humble enough to receive. And I thought, okay, that’s [00:17:00] me. Hello? And it was, it was humiliating in a sense, because we had to tell the world, you know, what was happening, nobody knew.

And it was liberating because we could tell the world and we didn’t have to hold it a secret. And it was, it was just all kinds of things. But the Lord used that to, I went online. I started a blog. And I started talking about Courtney and our life together. And he used that as an open door. I would never have done that as an open door for other people to come in and see what it’s like to raise a special needs child.

You’re really? Yes, I am her mother, but more so I’m her caretaker and difference in those two roles. And so You know, it was fascinating. People would be like, what clothes do you buy for her? She’s no wheelchair. It’s just that nobody had ever really talked about that. So we talked about all those things and the beauty, like you said, your kids with your, with their cousins, children are so beautiful.

Especially when you have someone who’s a little bit different. The one question they want to [00:18:00] know is what and why? Like, what is. You know if they have an outward sign. Oh, okay. And why, like, how does it work? So people would witness Courtney having a seizure at church, especially, and a little girl would say, why is she doing that?

I said, well, her brain, you know, I said, you know how you have your brain inside your head? And she goes, yes. And I said, it’s having a cramp, you know, when you run a lot and you get a cramp, and you’ll have to stop and take a deep breath. Oh yes. Mommy says I shouldn’t run after I eat because I get a cramp.

I said, that’s right. Well, Courtney has a cramp in her brain and that’s what it looks like. Great. And so once she knew that every time she saw Courtney, she would ask Courtney, expecting Courtney to speak. Did you have any cramps today? Are you feeling. You know, is a mother herself, you know, and she will not, I see her at mass all the time and she’s like, ahh, I miss her.

I miss Courtney so much, you know, talking to her and people were just drawn to her. [00:19:00] And so when you think, you know, everybody’s like, well, why would God allow this? I get that a lot too. God allows what he allows. And that’s beyond our understanding. It’s one of the great mysteries of our faith. The thing is God does not make.

He doesn’t make mistakes. And what he made in Courtney was perfection. And what I like to say is Courtney was just us inside out. You could see everything that was wrong with her. You could see, you know, the disability with us as differently abled people. We hide that. We put it all inside and we don’t let you see because we don’t want your judgment.

And so therefore she’s just turned inside out because she has no choice.

[00:19:42] Grace: I think that makes a lot of sense when you had said about Courtney and like that’s like the inside out. I was one of my professors at my college. He, his son is autistic and he’s spoken about that before. How it’s like, it’s not that his son has a disability, but he’s like almost better off than us because [00:20:00] he.

You can see how we’re supposed to be through him because he can’t sin in certain, he can’t sin at all. Like you can’t like there’s just a transparency. That’s the word he used, like a transparency that we don’t have, but that’s what we’re aiming for. And we can see that. And and those who have disabilities.

And so that really resonated.

[00:20:18] Mary: I love the idea of using the term. I mean, I get disability the term. Okay. It’s been around forever but differently. And the reason why I like that one better is simply because we are all differently abled. I am as disabled or differently abled as the next person, you can do things I can’t do.

I can do things you can’t do. Right. It’s just how we look at each other. And so therefore, by using that term and by looking at these beautiful children and adults that have been given this. Burden this beautiful burden, this grace, however you want to [00:21:00] describe it. They transform us. God has allowed them to show us what perfect love looks like.

Yeah. You know, we are different people because we had Courtney. We are a different family because she saved. She truly, literally saved us. A lot of people when they have special needs kids, 80% of all marriages families, when they have a special needs child, end in divorce, 80%. It’s so sad. And so she didn’t do that for us.

She brought us together. She saved us and we worked as a team for her. The hard part has been she’s no longer physically with us. And without that physical daily reminder, We lose sights. And so we forget, you know, the dignity of who she was, who God made her to be therefore transformed into the dignity of who we are and how we saw [00:22:00] ourselves.

And now we forget because she’s not here to remind us, right. It’s been more challenging since she died to be kinder to one another, to be more of a team than we were before. It’s it’s really I don’t know. I just it’s, it’s fascinating to me.

[00:22:19] Grace: It’s like the grace of a cross. Like you don’t want the cross, but you also do.

Like, there’s something very tangible about that.

[00:22:26] Mary: Well, you know, here we are Courtney was born on the feast of St. Helena of the. Oh, wow. She died on the feast of St. John the beloved.

[00:22:36] Grace: Oh my gosh.

[00:22:37] Christy: Okay. That totally connects with Grace and I have a love for St. Helena,

[00:22:43] Grace: and St. John.. I love StJohn.

[00:22:45] Christy: And she just talked in our other episode about being at the base of the cross of one of the relics that say brought back and how it was like the Blessed mother and St. John. That, so that is totally a holy spirit moment that you share that.

[00:22:58] Mary: Yeah, she, she [00:23:00] never left the foot of the cross, her whole life. She was. Yeah. And, you know, I wrote, I’ve written two books. The first book Be brave in the scared, really kind of Chronicles of how the transformation happened with my husband and myself through the addictions we were facing and how the grace of Courtney of our home and the the brokenness and the hardship of raising her, of caring for her, our son, just trying to be.

You know, we weren’t very good humans and she made us better. And so I wrote about that and we experienced kind of this miracle and Lords were able to take her to Lords. That was a pivotal moment in our family’s life. And so we were able to really take a look at the truth of, of her, of her recognize her dignity.

In a very, very intense and special way and see our life differently. And we were able to choose freely to live our life differently. And we wouldn’t, [00:24:00] I wouldn’t be doing, I wouldn’t be on your podcast. You would have no idea who I am without this beautiful young girl in my life. And, you know, and then the second book be bold in the broken was really how I made the decisions I’ve made.

It goes through my, some of my childhood, some of the things I’ve been through and it kind of explains the Lords. Through other people, like God always sends helpers. Right. Mr. Rogers, that’s one of his famous sayings is if you want to see the goodness in the world, look for the helpers. Right. Right. And so it’s kind of a book about the helpers that came to my life and, and, you know, before Courtney, during Courtney and now after Courtney.

And so Here we are in holy week and, and you’re looking at the Via Dela Rosa, you’re looking at the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ. He still sent helpers. If you look into the Stations of the cross, the first person He sees is his mother. [00:25:00] He sees you have that exchange between the immaculate heart of Mary and the sacred heart of Jesus.

And they understand one another they call it. The Holy Gaze. And they receive strength from one another. Right. They get it because the sin does not bear their relationship. Right. It doesn’t bar it. Pardon me. And so therefore you’re looking at one another and you’re just like, I mean, could you imagine, and that’s toward the first, after the first call.

So here we are, we’re walking that fall. And he sees his mom and she’s like, you got this, we both know what has to happen. And then he sends Simon of Cyrene right. Shoulders, that physical cross. And then he sends Veronica. Right. He shows compassion. Yeah. Right. And then you have the weeping women of Jerusalem who show empathy to him and he shows empathy to them, but then he admonishes them and says, don’t cry for me.[00:26:00]

Okay, because I know what’s coming and you don’t. And I feel like that sort of little call right there. That’s us. We’re going to church on Friday for good Friday, and we’re going to stand at that cross and we’re going to weep and we’re going to wail. Right. And yet, what is Jesus saying to us?

You’re the one that needs it. So come to me for it because I am the source of all grace. Yeah.

[00:26:31] Grace: That’s like, it makes me think of, yeah, it makes me think of it like the Pieta and like the last moment. If you watch the movie, the passion, which it’s not quite the same position, but the two, remind me the last scene of the Passion, where Mary is holding Jesus after he’s taken down from the cross.

And then in Vatican, very popular sculpture of Mary holding Jesus after he has been taken down. But. Dad dad said this to me two years ago and I watched the passion for the first time. He’s like, that’s the most convicting for me is when Mary’s [00:27:00] holding Jesus and she looks up at the camera and she just looks straight at you and it’s convicting, it’s like a loving conviction of your sin.

Did this, what are you going to do about it? But it’s not like, well, I hate you for it. Look at you killed my son. It’s no, what are you going to do? This is the beauty look at the Pieta itself. It’s it’s my, my favorite image of Mary. I call her our lady of sorrows because of my joy. Right? Look at her. Her hands are not grasping him.

They’re not holding him to her. They are offering him to the world and she’s not looking at him. She’s looking at you. She’s looking down. Right. Which is what Michael Angelo wanted. He wanted you to look up at her, right? And so here is her son and he has offered his life. She has offered her heart for the world.

And what is our response? Will we squander the gift? [00:28:00] Of the cross, the entirety of humanity and history ends at the cross, I don’t think people really understand this. I heard a theologian explain this once and it was just so amazing to me. It ends and it begins at the cross. All of salvation keeps coming back to the cross.

We keep coming back to the cross time goes on, but we keep coming back and we keep coming back. This is the moment of.

Is that how many times have we come back to Calvary, like through the Mass? Cause that’s what you’re doing every time. It’s like, Hey, there’s like me yesterday going to Mass here. Like, you know, we’re all coming back to the same moment.

[00:28:33] Mary: It’s one of the most beautiful things about our Mass, is that we remember this sacrifice. We honor this sacrifice and the dignity of human life. And you look at our world today. You know, we’re not holding that. We’re not holding that bar very high. We have a lot to answer for.

[00:28:52] Christy: And I think I really love Mary, how you said a while back about, you know, when you, you and your husband were struggling and losing the house [00:29:00] and, and then your friend saying, this is the first time we can help.

And then coming back to walking the road of Calvary and Christ’s helpers there. And I think there is something that is humbling. I was just watching. Have you ever watched the show called the. Yes. Okay. So I like that show. My husband’s like, ah, but I think there’s so much, there’s so much dignity in that show and that’s why I like it.

I mean, just not from a mother’s heart, like I’ve actually started it when I was pregnant with my sixth and I couldn’t do it. But then I know it’s kind of weird, but I go through weird pregnancy things in any way, like a sense, actually.

[00:29:35] Grace: I don’t think it’s weird. I think it’s funny.

[00:29:36] Mary: No, I mean, you’re pregnant. You’re watching all of these sometimes tragic things happen. I wouldn’t want either.

[00:29:41] Christy: Yeah. So getting back to it, but there’s a lot I have learned in actually, as we got home last night, just stumbled upon, I haven’t seen the last few seasons, but there was obviously some woman in crisis going through post-partum moment and she was just really needing.

Help, but she wasn’t asking for it either. And one of the midwives [00:30:00] actually said, cause they were reaching out, checked her into a place to get more help. And, and she was just like, I failed, like how can I do this? I failed. And the midwife was like, no, Asking for help is not a sign of failure. It’s actually the first sign of success and achieving.

And I don’t think we see that enough in the society. We’re supposed to have it all. We’re supposed to do it all. We’re supposed to be able to show it all and help asking for help as a sign of weakness and. No. I mean, that’s the biggest thing. I not the biggest, one of the big things, even just with my children is like mom and dad are always here to help, but I want you to ask for it.

I don’t, you know, we don’t want to swoop in and do that. And then, especially in times of when we’re talking about different needs that we have, if it’s someone with special needs, if it’s an injury, You know, I don’t know how many people, friends I’ve had that they’re like, it’s just so hard for me to ask for help.

And it’s like, well, we’re trained our society. We [00:31:00] rely on ourselves. You know, it’s one of the it’s one of the things that, that Jesus admonishes us for. Don’t rely on yourself. You cannot do. Yeah, exactly. It says through out scripture. Right. You know, in Christ, all things are possible with Mary, are possible with Christ.

All things are possible. But I also say to my kids a lot too, like sometimes. We have those times in our life that maybe we don’t even need think, think we need that much help or whatever, but people offering help. And when we turn that down, we’re actually turning down away from them to love us. There’s so much that sometimes the only way people can see at this time in their lives is to help and it’s them being able to love.

So it’s us loving them by allowing them to serve us by allowing them to help us, but actually. We always know that through service or allowing [00:32:00] that service, however, which way that channel goes, we always receive more. The more we put into it, more, we step out of ourselves, you know, in terms of service, like, you know, as kids, they go on mission trips and yes, you get to go to this land or you get to go to this, you know, downtown, or you get to go wherever and it’s always, you always receive so much more through.

The helping and the serving of others than you really put into it. And because when we get so focused in this selfishness, in this closed off, and these blinders on that, when we put ourselves first or how am I going to gain, or what am I going to, or how is this person going to serve me? You know, what is my game?

We, we lose sight of everything else and we barely gain it’s once we empty.

[00:32:45] Mary: . It’s the upside down economy of God, the writer, Bob Goff penned that one. And I love it. It’s the upside down economy of God. You would think, you know, with money, you put it in the bank and the more you put in the bank, the more money you have, but love works in the exact opposite way, [00:33:00] right?

The less you have and the more you give, the more you will have, right? The less, I mean, the more simply we live, the more bold we love, the greater and bigger our lives are the greater and bigger our hearts grow to be. Right because we’re not chained by this world. We’re just a Sojourner here. We’re just here for a little bit.

We don’t get, we’re not, we’re not, not here to stay. You know, we are to build our house, not on sand, but on the rock of Christ and the rock of the church. And so we forget all of that in our humanness. We forget all of that. And our sin, we get distracted. Satan’s greatest tool is distraction. It’s.

It’s emotional upset. It’s just it’s distract and destroy, you know, it’s all those little things that he whispers into your heart. Like, no, you’re not, no, you shouldn’t wear that. No, you shouldn’t do that. No, you don’t have time to do that. Nope. You know, our time we hoard our time [00:34:00] four hours on Netflix and you’re like, what could you have done with that, Mary?

Yeah.

 And so it’s it’s yes. Are these things is, is our phone attuned for a tool for good? Absolutely. But in all good things, Satan comes. And so we have to be wary of that, you know when Courtney was here, I did, I still might, it drives my husband nuts. He’ll say, well, what’s happening next week. And I’ll look at him and go, I have no idea.

I know what’s happening today. And I have some semblance of knowledge for tomorrow. I’m like I, that child taught me to be present. In the moment and do not stray from the moment. That’s why it drives me nuts when people come to the house. We’ll have them for dinner and everybody pulls out their phone.

So now we have a basket by the door and you put your phone in the basket at the end, we don’t need it. And that way we are fully present to one another. In that [00:35:00] moment and you can have these deep conversations, you can have these moments where somebody is like, wow, I never thought of it that way. Or gee, I feel seen today, right?

Because it’s the deepest desire of every human’s heart to be seen, known, and loved. And you have to look into their eyes and you have to encourage them. You know, yes. Can you do it through a DM or a text? Of course, is it better in person 1 million? To love is a complicated thing.

And yet with God, there is no complication. There is simply action. You know, it’s a decision of the heart to act and that’s what we have to do. And every time you think of somebody during the day, it’s the holy spirit prompt either say a prayer for them, reach out to. You know, don’t ignore it, pay attention and that that skill will grow.

And it’ll really, it just makes life so much better, [00:36:00] so much fuller and richer.

[00:36:02] Christy: I love that. I just, I mean, I’ve really been trying to take that on this lent. Grace knows that my whole mantra. New year has been intentionality in every area of my life. And I’m reading something about same other Theresa I don’t know, at the beginning of lunch was just how she recognized Christ in everyone.

And she would bow out of recognizing him, and, and just with our whole mantra of this podcast of how to live out the extraordinary in the ordinary. I think of that with my little. I mean, I’m interrupted constantly. I tell my husband that all the time, like time is hard and because how I think like daily prayer to just, we should just do it. Right? And and I do I’ve formed good habits, but it’s hard for me. I struggle when they interrupt me, especially my three-year-old. And I’ve just been very struck that no, this is my service. This is Christ challenging me, not trying to trick me, but challenging me. Do you [00:37:00] recognize me and her right now? And your service you’re vocation as that part of your prayer is stopping and getting up and serving.

[00:37:07] Mary: The author, Victor Hugo, ” to love the person is to see the face of God.”.

Yes, we say that here all the time, and that is so true. And so if I can see that if I can bow to that other person to recognize Christ in them, to love them to slow down so that within the ordinary we’re recognizing Christ and that. That is something ordinary and I just, I love how you put that.

[00:37:30] Grace: Like, yeah, I’m just saying that just like sums up. That’s just our podcast. Wrapped up right there. Just a little pretty present, put it in a box, tie as with a bow, put it on the Christmas tree right there. And it’s the hardest thing to do. Yeah, I can say it so simply. And the writer, you know, these beautiful poets and writers can write it so beautifully.

And yet, do we actually. Yes. I think we [00:38:00] live in that’s like, God, it’s like, it’s so simple when you say it, but then trying to serve him so much. It’s like, well, yeah, of course it’s plain and simple sort of, but it’s so hard to live out. Yeah.

[00:38:11] Mary: I dunno if you’ve seen the new movie, Cyrano, the one that just came out. It’s a beautiful story. It’s very, it’s actually, it’s sad. It’s just sad because the last scene, well, I’ll give it away. So if you’re, if your listeners want to see the movie, just pause and go forward 30, 45 seconds. But in the end, you know, Cyrano dies. And he dies in the arms of the woman that he has always loved, but he never had the courage to tell her, and she tells him in return, but it’s always been, you I’ve always loved you.

Right. And this bittersweet moment. And the last thing he says is yes, you have loved me, but I have loved my pride and I. Oh, [00:39:00] you know, I’m sitting there and I’m crying. It’s a beautiful scene. And like, oh my gosh. Yes, I have loved, like, it’s always been about me. I didn’t tell you. I loved you because I didn’t want to be rejected by you.

Instead of taking the chance that you would tell me the truth of your heart and they’ve missed out on this beautiful life they could’ve had together ending so tragically, because he was in love with his pride. And I thought isn’t that humanity in a sentence you’re in love with our pride. Yes. And therefore we don’t ask for the help and we drown in our own our own.

You know, we don’t look for the helpers and we are overcome by our own pride. You know, we don’t serve others and we are alone in our own pride. And so I just, I have a lot of work to do myself. I mean, Courtney pretty much, you know, [00:40:00] showed us the way, but Yeah, we’re still working on it. She’s gonna be the one that gets us to heaven.

I think telling her, like no pressure, but just make sure the hole is big enough that I can get through.

[00:40:09] Christy: How beautiful that you have a Saint in heaven praying for that. I just, I love that too. And I think that’s a good take away.. Like let’s not die with loving our pride. Let’s go out and, and be saints and recognize Christ in others and love because I love that and love with your life, for someone else’s to see the face of God.

[00:40:32] Mary: Well, and remember St. Francis. We are the hands and feet, you know, like Jesus is gone, he’s in heaven, he’s waiting for you. He’s interceding. He’s there. You know, he’s like, well, he doesn’t have to intercede, He’s God. So he’s, he’s, there, doing so, like he’s not, he’s not walking here in the same way.

We are his hands and feet. And if we expect the world to change, then we have to change. And to change is hard [00:41:00] because change requires suffering.

Suffering It’s a sacrafice party. Let’s do that. That’s what I wanna do

[00:41:09] Grace: It’s a sacrifice party. Guys. Let’s go!

[00:41:13] Mary: It’s funny. Cause you know, people always tell me about this. You know, we talk to each other as Catholics about the saints, right? Oh, the state means so much to me, let’s take take St. Therese a, a one that we all love, right. Means so much to me. Have you all looked at her life?

Not enjoyable. She died when she was like, I don’t think she was even 10. Yeah, she was, she lost her parents. She’s in the convent and people are annoying her. She was probably on the spectrum. I swear. She was. She was so sensitive. My favorite one was when she broke out into a sweat when she was in the chapel one day, because the nun in front of her was clicking the rosary beads and she just couldn’t.

She was like, Lord, [00:42:00] take this from me. And I’m like, The rosary bit, it could drive us nuts and you’re looking at life and then how she died, this painful racking, death, and yet, what did she do? She said. All for you. Yeah.

[00:42:19] Christy: I love even the part where the sisters, as she’s dying, we’re like, what are we going to say about her obituary? How are we going to eulogise her. She didn’t do anything. And here we are talking about her.

[00:42:30] Mary: Now she is a doctor of the church.

Exactly. At the age of 24 with very little education.

[00:42:37] Grace: Yeah, I could, I could do a whole episode just talking about her. I love her so much.

[00:42:44] Mary: And I just, you know, for me, I looked at her and her love of suffering. I’m like, Chica, you need to see a doctor for that. I was reading a A story of a Soul, I had to put it down and I’m like, I can’t. But then. Number one, I’m not Saint Therese. There is no other Saint Therese. There was only one, [00:43:00] right? I’m not, I don’t have the relationship that she had with Christ. I don’t have the discipline she had.

I mean, I can certainly gain the discipline, but I just, my life was not her life. And therefore my experiences are not hers. So when you’re trying to compare, you that’s that, that’s another thing the devil uses its comparison. Right? So we think like, oh, I can’t do that. Like a lot of people say to me, oh, Mary, I could never do what you did with Courtney? Well, you’re not, again, you’re not being, you deal with this and this and this. And I looked at that and go, no I don’t. I’m not doing that. Yeah, just back to the beginning. It’s just embrace that idea. I think we’d all be happy.

[00:43:44] Grace: Yeah. Someone said that once, cause we were talking about the saints and Maria Goretti and

she got brought up and she was 13, 13, and she was stabbed to death. And someone was just said out loud, they’re like, I couldn’t do that. And our, I think we were, like a youth ministry event a few years back. And our youth minister was like, you’re not [00:44:00] supposed to, you’re not Maria. Goretti, that’s what you’re called, but you’re not Maria Goretti.

[00:44:05] Mary: I had the great privilege of being there last September at her at the shrine and Maria Goretti and her body is the alter in the, in the basement church, her cat, her cat. In a glass casket. And it was just a very, very powerful experience on forgiveness, you know, as he was stabbing her, she said, I forgive you because her one concern was not for herself, but for his soul, you know, for his soul and his torment and the beauty of seeing the photographs of him at her canonization, mass walking right behind her mother.

After he had been released from prison, spending his life, doing whatever he could to care for her family and then to assist her. Cause you know, she appeared to him in [00:45:00] prison and offered him the Lilly and his life. You know, and so are we called to those moments of heroism? Yeah. You want to know what? My moment of heroism is at 3:00 AM.

When my daughter was having a seizure and I couldn’t stop it and I couldn’t make it better, but I can hold her. You know, when our babies disrupt us, our teenagers want to talk. Then it’s 12:30 in the morning. You’re just like, please sweet Lord I 30 minutes maybe, or I’m going to fall asleep. And they pour out their hearts for the next two hours.

And you’re like, oh, I had no idea this was happening in your life. Those are great moments like we were talking about in the hidden, those are hidden heroes, right? These, these nurses and doctors are served 24 hours a day. You know, these the care workers and in the nursing homes. Both for children [00:46:00] and adults and these beautiful patients with Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s and dementia, where they are unaware of who they are, where they are and love them and treat them with dignity and respect until the Lord calls them home.

I mean, there’s, every person is called to be a hero in their life. And we don’t see it as an option because we’re used to seeing Captain America .

[00:46:24] Christy: We have to recognize that we are, we are called, I think that’s a lot of in the midst of like, we’re talking about the helpers and things like that is that we downplay in this false humility, our gifts and our achievements.

And like you said, God doesn’t make any mistakes. And God has created all three of us here and everyone in his image. And so in the midst of trying to learn to how to be a Saint and to live that out, that’s recognizing what those gifts and those talents are and how to use those graces. And because to deny [00:47:00] that I have a gift or a talent and not to be able to share that is to deny the beauty of Christ within me.

And we get into the sense of like, oh, I’m not good at that. Or I think as women a lot, we get. I just, I just can’t, it’s all about them. It’s all, you know, and we put ourselves back, like, or if something is right or to acknowledge something or to, to bring something. Besides bearing children, you know, that’s a beauty in itself, but that’s about them, not about us and our ability.

And I think we disregard that and therefore we, then we hide this beauty of Christ in us and what we have to bring to the world. I know I’ve struggled that with that myself and I’m really coming to discover where I just thought forever, like, oh, here’s my life. I grew up. And I, I went to high school and I went to college and my husband and I got married and then we had six kids and my life is done. I raised them and that’s the end of Christy.

The season in now. My

[00:47:54] Mary: they’re gone. My kids are gone once in heaven. Once 20 minutes away with his wife, [00:48:00] my house is, well, it’s not so quiet with a six month old puppy, but it’s quieter. Right? And the world is telling me I’m done now world. The culture says to me at a 54 year old woman, It’s time for the young ones.

Heck no, I just got started. I have an entire life, but I now have all of these lessons, whether they be good lessons, bad lessons or horrible lessons that I now have in my, my backpack of life. And I have to go. Right. And this beautiful idea of Titus 2 womanhood, biblical womanhood, where I journey now, and my mother reaches back and holds my hand. I reach back and hold my nieces and nephews hands. They reach back and hold the little ones hands. And we all journey, especially as women, you look at Elizabeth and our lady, what did they do? They journey together, right? Multi-generational and. We’ve [00:49:00] separated ourselves out into these little piles. No, we are meant to travel in community.

We are meant to grow in community. We are meant to heaven and community, and we do that in a multi-generational way because that’s where the teachers are. That’s where the helpers are, because I already know, I know what it was like for me. Therefore, I can help. Right. We need those step aheads. My French is like that.

[00:49:23] Christy: And I’ve said that for years, and we’re not that far apart in age, but she’s enough that she has those older kids and we have those one step ahead friends and that we can learn that, but I don’t think we learn it in the multi-generational anymore because we’re not growing our families in that way.

And you know, we don’t all live with grandma and mom and dad, and then me and my children in this four generation home, you know. But we loose that because we don’t live that way. Physically does not mean that we should not be living that way out in the world.

[00:49:54] Mary: I heard your word for the year is intentional. That’s an intentional.

[00:49:58] Christy: Yes it is. [00:50:00] And how do you, how do you bring that about, and how do you cultivate that intentionally by saying, I am going to form community with these people and we are going to choose to raise our families together in this way, intentionally. And I’m going to look at you with intentionality and my actions are today are going to be intentional in the choices that I make, because I’m going to slow down enough within my.

To do these things instead of just reacting, like I’m going to choose to respond to what’s going on in my life and not just react in it. And it, it is, it’s very counter-cultural and, but we are journeying here and we have to teach the next generations how to journey and we have to show gratitude to the generations before us to say, thank you for teaching us. And thank you for being this guidepost for me and being able to serve and offer.

[00:50:47] Mary: I love the idea of not just thinking of the generation ahead of us, but the one behind us too, because they keep us young and they keep us striving and moving forward.

[00:50:58] Grace: Yeah, I, I was reading [00:51:00] like a section of JPII biography while I’m here. And they said like, I think a month before he died. He turned to the person next to him at the table at some dinner he’s at. And he’s like, so, so what are the young kids into these days? Like he’s still trying a month before he’s dying. Like he’s already sick at this point and maybe it was a little more than a month, but it was within a year. You know, he was just that invested in like, what can I give the young people? Like, you know, it’s like, cause they’re, they’re the ones that are keeping this going. So what do I need to give them.

[00:51:28] Mary: They’re going to find the fulfillment they’ve been sent here sent here to find and all of it ends at the cross begins to cross.

[00:51:37] Christy: Ladies, it’s been so wonderful. We could go on and on with, our helpers, with beginning and ending at the cross with all these beloved saints that have taught us and, and just taking our own intentionality and doing that. Mary, I thank you for joining us. This has been amazing. Amazing. We’ll have to do it again. We’ll have to, I mean, there’s just so many other things we could [00:52:00] break into, so we’ll definitely have to have that. So thank you for being here.

[00:52:04] Grace: Yeah. All the, all the jazz I like to say, subscribe, rate review. If you would like, we would love for you to do that. Helps us spread the word to more people and yeah, we hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. We’ll see you next week on the Thanks Mom Podcast!