What to do with Paradoxes?

Season 3 #3 Paradoxes

Christy: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome back. We are glad that you are here. I’m your co-host Christy

Grace: and I’m Grace, the other co-host and you’re listening to the Thanks Mom Podcast. Happy Saturday morning, mom.

Christy: Happy Saturday morning. I need to get some coffee into me and try and adjust this microphone.

Grace: Is that

better?

I hope so. Sorry if there’s feedback

here, guys just want you to get the best quality stuff.

Christy: Yes. But we’re hearing, we’re glad you’re listening. It’s been busy but interesting summer week. I don’t know why it’s been interesting. Maybe it’s just because it’s been full in my mind. Not much has been routine. We have lots of little things going on.

Sorry. So how about you, grace? You’ve been working from home and on this week? Not too much, not too busy.

Grace: Yeah, sometimes I’m just. In the zone that I kind of I’m like, wait, what did I do this week? I feel like, I don’t know what to say. Yeah. And I worked off and on it was [00:01:00] a slower end of the week, which was good.

I’ve just been tired. 4th of July pooped me out. It was fun. Like I had a blast. . But then by the time I got to the fireworks Monday night, I was like, I, I want to see them. But I also don’t because I think I’ll fall asleep during the show. Cause I’m so tired.

Christy: Well, I think it’s different for you cuz you’re working now.

And so you have to think about

Grace: the fact that yeah, I was like, I have to be, oh, I have to go to work the

Christy: next day.

Grace: I was like the, and then I laughed. Welcome to the real world please. Well, I was telling people at work the next day and they all agreed. I was like, I think like the office for any holiday closes like two and a half hours before the day before a holiday.

So like the day before a holiday, you get, you can leave two and a half hours early. Uhhuh kind of thing. So that was so because of how it, the holiday fall, that was Friday because the 4th of July was on Monday, but I was like, that’s stupid for 4th of July because that’s the one, or maybe even like new year’s and stuff.

Cause you want it. There’s a few of those, there’s a few of those holidays where like the whole point is to stay up for the fireworks or until the ball drops or something like that. And it’s like kind of defeating when [00:02:00] you’re like, and I have to get up and work tomorrow. Like I’d rather. drive on the holiday if I’ve lived further away to see family so that I could stay and spend the night and then get up and go home kind of thing.

Yeah. Like, I dunno, just my opinion. So your

Christy: argument, what I hear you saying is for a late start.

Grace: Yes.

Christy: Yeah.

Grace: Like how the we, so I can sleep in yes. Two and a half hours later. The day after the holiday. Yes. Is when the office

Christy: That’s was my argument for Easter Monday always was to. I’m glad our kids get Easter Monday off.

We didn’t always change it. Wasn’t always that way. And it’s changed because I’m like the highest holy day of the year. And if you want to see anyone out of town, it makes it just difficult to get back at a reasonable time if it’s school day or office and,

and it isn’t in other countries, it’s a national holiday.

Mm-hmm it wasn’t Poland. It was. So they. Sunday is the family day like to celebrate Easter and Mondays, like the friends day, the celebrate Easter. So nothing was open on Easter besides churches, obviously. And Monday then people went out and they were in the streets and celebrating. [00:03:00] And like, so probably some businesses were open, not many, you know, just to celebrate and stuff.

But that was when everyone like was, you know, celebrating together, but that’s just, you know, that’s a Catholic country and we. You know, I mean, we’re found Christians is not a Christian country. Yes. We were founded. We were talking about this the other day, we’re found on Christian principles, but the whole point of it was to that you make your own choices.

And I don’t know, that was a whole different conversation. We were talking about the other day of how we’re we’re a Christian country, but also not like anyways. Yeah. But. Of that

like leads well into the topic that you wanted to discuss and lead us

with today.

Grace: Oh yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to talk about paradoxes because they’re annoying, but cool.

and they keep popping up in my brain lately where I’m like, that’s frustrating, but that’s how our faith works. So like I was talk texting mom about this last night. I was like, I wanna talk about this in a paradox. yeah.

Define what a paradox is.

It’s like two things that [00:04:00] should sometimes people talk about it in literature, but I’m talking about it in the, the faith people.

It’s, it’s like two things that should, that seem to contradict to each other or should contradict each other, but they

Christy: don’t. So they actually compliment each other. Is that yeah. Can you stretch it that far? I

Grace: think just contradict. I’m gonna Google search. What Google says of paradox is oh, cause Google, this is like ball.

Oh yeah. Or the key ball. I’m just saying this is coming from my brain and I’m not checking this a statement that seems to contradict itself, but may nonetheless be true a person thing or situation that exhibits explicable or contradictory aspects. Okay. We’re not talking about, we’re talking about the statement, a statement that is self contradictory or logical.

Untenable though, based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises, that’s very logical. And I don’t remember all my logical.

Christy: So do you say, they said that it could be true. So does that mean truth is almost more than just

Grace: complimentary? I feel like maybe sometimes I could be wrong, but maybe paradox means like, it seems like it should contradict itself.

And it doesn’t necessarily mean if it is true or isn’t like, [00:05:00] it’s like, oh, like almost like you have to deem if it’s true or not after realiz. It seems to contradict another thing. I could be wrong. Don’t take my word on that. I’m just brainstorming right here, but,

Christy: so what are your examples or what are the first one you wanna

Grace: dive into the biggest paradox that bothered me for so long.

And I didn’t understand mm-hmm was, well here. I’m gonna go through some basic examples because we all know these. We just don’t define it. Mary is a Virgin and a mother. Those things should contradict themselves. Sure. Okay. But they don’t. Jesus came back to life and gave us life. Sorry. I keep dropping my pen.

He, he came back to life after he died. He gave us life through a death that should contradict itself. Like his death should be the end of his, of his followers. Like he’s dead. He’s gone. That’s it. But instead it was just like the beginning in many ways, I feel

Christy: like we should have father Troy. I’m gonna feel like we’re gonna have to redo this episode

Grace: because you think I’m gonna be a hair tick [00:06:00] and then he might wanna slap your face.

No, I’m

Christy: just kidding.

Grace: That’s who was that? Who was the slap? A hair that was Saint Nicholas slapping AR Aus. That’s right. So yeah. And one of the councils anyway, or uncle Pete could be

Christy: here. I feel like these are things that. I need another dis person to discuss with it’s very, I’m gonna try and discuss them with you, but keep going.

Grace: Sorry. So, and those are some of like, just the basic ones we like that seem, or even like Elizabeth, Elizabeth was Barron and she had a child. That’s another it’s those things shouldn’t work together. So there, like our faith in just even the Bible is full of these or like, or Abraham and Sarah, like mm-hmm, , I’m now just thinking simply of children in situations, but there’s more in that.

I’m not thinking of off the top of my head. But the one that would bug me for so long is more of like our modern, like the word of like, well, you’re beloved, you’re worthy. You’re da, da, da, like, which is very true. And it’s like, through your baptism, like, know how much Jesus loves you. And we hear this in ki it’s kind of like a modern, not, not cliche.

Cause it is true that you’ll hear in a lot of Catholic communities now. And, but then I was like, okay, but then we’re [00:07:00] always like, but we. Our scum of the earth where, or maybe that’s not isn’t that there’s, somewhere’s like we’re

Christy: St. Catherine of Sienna speaks about being a worm.

Grace: Yeah, no, that was Theresa ALO I think.

Oh my bad.

Christy: See, I mixed it up even

Grace: too. Yeah. She was like, I am a worm. I like all these things or or just where it’s like, remember you are dust into dusty shatter turn. Like it makes you feel very nothingness in a certain sense. Not that it’s all, but that one I argue

Christy: with though, too, because we know. We are soul and body here on earth.

And we know that yes, our body shall return to the earth to realize that, but our soul will live eternal. Well, it will. It’s

Grace: more of just the lowly sense. It gives me when I hear that, where it’s like, I am so small. I am so seemingly insignificant, even though the Lord still loves me. It’s like, I’m so like little compared to the Grande of God kind of thing.

Like that’s what makes me think of not that I’m worthless, but just kind of. I’m not, I don’t, I don’t know how to describe it. Not discouraging, awful. [00:08:00] You’re an awful person, but just this idea of like you are, so you’re so small that you’re like, and you came from dust and you’re just gonna return to dust.

And yes, we do have a soul. I’m not, I’m not kind of going into that whole, and we’re not gonna have eternal life, but just, but then at the same time, people are like, you’re a princess, you’re a daughter of God. And it’s like, okay, how do I, how do you, I, I was like, okay, I know these things are both true, but how the heck are they?

How can I have these. How do they not contradict each other? They seem to contradict each other well, because I think

Christy: we’re outside of like, some of it does go to outside of space and time. And if you’re thinking very literally, which we, as humans do think very linear. Literally I’m linearly linear. Thank you.

See, I’m only, I’m not even halfway through the coffee folks. Let’s just give me another two minutes, but if we’re thinking that way, then we don’t go to the next part. And, and Christ is outside. God is outside of space and time. And so he’s created this almost dimension, like you said. So it is, I guess it is through a [00:09:00] paradox.

I would say that like how we. Life through death, through the death of Christ that we have it, but then, and it goes into, we have to die to ourself to live with Christ. Right? Mm-hmm so I guess I’m, I’m saying yes, those are there, but then I don’t think you’re taking the following step. Like just yesterday in father’s homily.

He’s like, what do we do? It was very simple. We cuz we see that we mess up and there’s part of humility. Like going back to what is true humility, trying to say

Grace: it’s not, not, I’m not talking about eternal life right now. Aw, there’s a chipmunk in the window guys.

Christy: Yeah. Sorry. I don’t like chip monks. They look cute, but I know they can be very destructive anyway, we digress,

Grace: but I’m not talking about eternal life.

I guess I’m talking more about like humility versus holding your worth as well, knowing your worth. And it’s like, how are you?

Christy: But that’s what true humility is, is knowing who

Grace: you, and that’s what I now can understand. But so long, I was like, I know these must compliment each other, but these two statements, it really bothered me where I was like, I Don.

this does I [00:10:00] don’t. I know they have to, this has to work together somehow, but I don’t see how, like I was so confused. I was like, how can those two and you’re right, true humility is knowing who you are. And you’re a beloved daughter of God and you’re worthy of the kingdom and things like that. But it’s, it’s a, or, or, or even just like, sorry, like I thought of more of what I was go ahead trying to say.

And then I lost it. You say your thing .

Christy: I think all of those, you can have the both ands and, and you hear a lot of people within our faith. Talk about the both ands. We are unworthy, but through Christ we have been made worthy mm-hmm right. Even St of LASU even said if, if, if I can just rush and ascend these stairs to Christ, what is the point of Christ?

mm-hmm so we need to be little. We need to be so small and show. I love the quote. She, and it’s not exactly a quote, but she was talking about like a stairway to Christ. And if I can just slowly lift my foot and just attempt and show the show, the father that I’m [00:11:00] attempting this, he will rush down and carry me versus if I’m able to do it on my own.

So we need to show and be humble enough to say to Christ. We are nothing. We can’t do this on our. Apart from you, just like the Bible says, apart from you, you know, he is divine. We are the branches apart from Christ, we can do nothing. And so when we do that, that’s when we allow Christ to enter in. And that’s where I think the humility comes to bring, I don’t know, truth to the par or I don’t know, truth or meaning out of the paradox.

Maybe mm-hmm is what you’re getting at. And because I think we do have to recognize our low. Like you’re saying I am worm or I am little or I am, you know, to dust, we shall return, but we’ve been redeemed through Christ. So therefore we can call ourselves beloved. Therefore we are children of God.

That’s all scripturally based through what Christ did for us on the cross. And I think that’s where the true humility comes into that of having [00:12:00] us recognize we are in a lowly state. We need something. I mean, it’s the whole beginning of. if you’ve ever seen that, the drawing of trying to evangelize two salvation, you have two different mountains here.

So you have the mountain of sin and earth and the man walking, and he is hopeless. Sorry for our listeners who can’t see my diagram, I’m trying to show to grace, but maybe if I can describe it while

you’ll understand. And then, and then there’s a big chasm or a canyon or whatever. And over here is heaven. and so we are lowly. We are nothing. We are unworthy. There’s no way to reach to heaven. And then what happens in this diagram is the cross come down and the bridge is made. So the bridge is the outs spans of the cross, and then it’s vertically.

And it’s showing that through the redemption, through Christ death, on the cross, he redeems us. We can pass from. To heaven. Mm-hmm right. So without him, we can do nothing. Mm-hmm is basically what the that’s displaying and that how he’s redeemed us and overcome our sin through his death and then his resurrection.

So if that’s going on, [00:13:00] I think you’re right. I, I just think you gotta stretch it farther that God is outside of this. And so there is, there is a redemption aspect, but maybe I’m not. You know, clueing into what you’re saying. Okay. And that’s where I go back to what father was saying in the homily of recognizing our loneliness and acknowledging that and just saying, I screwed up again, Lord.

Yep. I am. I’m nothing without you. I think we do have to do that. I’m nothing. And yet again, I’m gonna try and I’m asking for your grace and I’m gonna pick myself up because that’s what you’ve told us to do to pick up your cross, to pick up the cross and follow him and move forward. So I guess that’s.

Sometimes we make it really heady. And sometimes I feel like we just have to simplify it, but is that what you’re getting at or not kind of,

Grace: I mean, that’s basically what I’m saying is these things seem to our human brains to not make sense, but then when you do that and you talk through it and you really can, I mean, sometimes that takes time and studying and learning, then you can understand like, no, these don’t contradict each other.

And that’s the whole point that’s interesting to me [00:14:00] is there’s, there’s so much seemingly tension in a lot of things in our faith and it’s like, Well, how can you say that? If that, and that was one that I struggled with for a while where I was like, how can I truly be humble and realize my sin like makes me not.

That was some of it. It’s like, okay. So technically sin means I can’t get into heaven, but because of, because of Jesus, I can, but it was just like, so how do I hold that? Be like, I’m a sinner and I’m, so I’m messed up. I don’t, I don’t deserve this. I think that was the words that it was like, okay, I don’t deserve this, but I’m worthy.

How are those words different? Like I’m worthy of heaven. I don’t deserve heaven. Kind of thing. And then learning be like, and it, what really clicked for me eventually was like, how I was created was for heaven. I don’t always live up to that. Right. And that’s, and that is sin, but that doesn’t mean I’m not worthy of it.

And I want to live up to that worthiness. And of course, like you said, I can’t do that without Christ and that happens, but just, I don’t know. So that was one that took me a long time of thinking of, I don’t really remember neuron probably early college. [00:15:00] I don’t know. I think those things are fun to think about in our faith where it’s like, like almost leading into the confusion, not confusion, but like tension, I guess, is the best word of like, these things seem like they shouldn’t make sense, but they do because of Christ.

And if you, and that’s just interesting and fun for me to learn is be like, oh, that’s another paradox. Mm-hmm . And so that was when I was thinking of, I was listening to many hail Mary’s and this guy. was saying he knew he knew another seminar on our priest, or just maybe heard the story of someone who was working with the sisters of charity.

Is that her order? Missionaries of charity. Oh, St St. Teresa of Calcutta. Yes. He was like working with them and I don’t know if he was a seminarian or what, but he was like, I want clarity for my vocation or something along those lines. Sure. And so he asked mother Tracy, he’s like, can you pray that God would gimme clarity?

And she was. God, doesn’t give clarity. You just have to trust that he’s gonna take care of you. And like, that’s kind of what he was talking about. And I remember hearing that and I was like, oh yeah, that’s true. And then I was like, wait, that [00:16:00] also is confusing to me because don’t we say like, God doesn’t speak in confusion.

He speaks clearly. And you’re saying, he’s not gonna clarity has to trust. And then realizing isn’t true. No, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I’m saying that’s the whole point of this discussion? Yeah. Is it seems like it contradicts itself, but when you sit down, you. No, he does make it clear. He’s still not gonna talk in the confusing.

Right. And sometimes he doesn’t give the full picture and you do just have to trust. And so maybe she didn’t say exactly like that. He doesn’t give clarity, but she, but she was more like, don’t pray for a perfectly clear answer. Just trust was her point. And so, but like sometimes I just have to sit for a second and go, okay.

These things seem to not make sense. And instead of running from that, which I think is easy to do in our faith, like when people don’t get it, it. Well, then I’m gonna ignore it. I’m gonna ignore her. I’m gonna leave the church. Doesn’t make sense. And it’s like, no sit because it does make sense. Right. And that’s so interesting to me it’s just fun.

Like, so I don’t know what you’re gonna say. No, I was, that’s not

Christy: true. Well, because I’m in my non, the lo in mind, in my non logical mind, my brain doesn’t [00:17:00] always work as well that way, but I think you cannot like what you just said. I think. One who had studied that better would say you can’t just say, God doesn’t speak in clarity.

Thus, he speaks in confusion. Yeah. That is not saying a plus B equals C. Not speaking in clarity means he may not speak in clarity. It does not mean he speaks in con con confusion. That’s that doesn’t equal the answer there. And so, like you and I have talked about this using this trust example a lot is. I do agree exactly what you know, St.

Teresa Calcutta said to that young man, I didn’t listen to that. But from what you explained, as in God does work by opening the doors, right. We have to just walk through them and trust, and I’m in the middle of listening to on hallow, going through, searching for and maintaining feet piece by now.

Totally blanking coffee still. Isn’t kicked in Fe Jacque shock father, Jacque, father Jacque. Thank you. And he is talking about it too. Like the biggest thing we have that can Rob us of our, [00:18:00] besides the devil, wanting to Rob us, all of our peace is our lack of trust for some reason in our human mind. And I think this connects to the paradox as well.

We think we should be able to solve this right in a human world of a paradox. Like you could say all these things, I just. Father, Troy, another shout out, like just sent your dad and I, the Franciscan university’s graduation address by Dr. Peter Krief who? I really like him. He’s so dry and funny.

Is he a mindful Catholic one? No, he’s not. He’s vice he’s written a million books. Like I think I’m, I’m back to virtue is a lot of his, and he’s from Boston college and he’s a huge, just intellectual logical. Theologian. And and he was just talking about all of these type of things. Grace, you should listen to it, cuz it was all these things that the world tells you the top 10 things that the world tells you that are just not true.

Like how you can be anything like mm-hmm, like go on from here. You can be anything. So there’s a huge paradox and he goes, that’s not true. [00:19:00] I cannot become Superman I cannot become a pregnant woman, no matter what our society feeds you in the end. And he goes, and that’s not even true for God. Like, God, yes, he sent Christ as man, but he cannot be anything, but God, he goes, so he debunks all of these top 10 things that mm-hmm society feeds us for that.

So yes, within. Within the world, there’s tons of paradoxes that I think we can logically debunk, but when it comes to paradoxes, like you’re saying of our faith, I think that does go into trust. And we think as humans. Back to father Jacque Philippe was saying that we think, well, it’ll be better for me in my human mind to figure this out, to make a plan for my life and to do it rather than trusting God, the almighty, like how silly when we say it logically like that.

How silly is that to be like? Yeah, I’d rather just do it myself. Because, you know, I’m lowly, like you’re saying, I don’t see the whole picture. I, I think [00:20:00] linearly, like I don’t even think out of time and space, so I all have the better plan. Mm-hmm like, that just makes me even laugh saying it that way.

Instead of let’s let God the almighty, the creator of the universe who created us and better us with a soul, make a plan for our lives. And now, but the jump to that, we would all probably say, oh, that sounds way better. Is the trust issue. And how do we get there? Mm-hmm and our lack of trust. You know, our faith is we still have to constantly grow in our faith and let that evolve and deepen enough to say, yep.

Okay. I’m trusting that the Lord might not speak clearly, like you said, or, or give clarity in the way we want of neon signs or assurance. But when we slow down enough, this goes back to my whole intentionality and. L finding the extraordinary in the ordinary. I think when we actually take time to slow down and look at our life, hindsight’s always 2020, but we can say, oh, we all do that.

Yep. I saw the Lord working there. Now, when I look back, I [00:21:00] see the Lord, his hand was in that, that was a really confusing time, but God worked through that here. So God is gonna work through any of these decisions. It, it just goes like how we wanna do discernment to another topic, but I think. When we always expect there to be the clarity, the way we as humans envision that clarity to be sadly, I think there will be confusion because it’s actually our lack of trust.

Mm-hmm we desire it to be a certain way and say, no, God is giving clarity, but it’s not a D odd sign cuz he’s presenting these opportunities to walk through, or God is explaining this paradox, but it might. B right. Equals, left and left equals, right? No, right. Is right. And left is left, whatever, you know, like I think we have to slow down enough to say, okay, L Lord, where are the signs though?

That you’re directing in my life right now? Mm-hmm even though it might not be yes, go here. It could be, oh, but this is the opportunity he’s presented me with. So I’m [00:22:00] gonna in. Don’t

Grace: that. Yeah. Yeah. Walk. I don’t have, I don’t have that whole yeah. And that’s trust. Yeah.

Christy: Right. And so, I mean, I think we can explain that some to the paradox is some, I think we we’re expecting the answer to be a certain way and God doesn’t speak that way because he’s not human and he’s outside of this time and space and he’s gonna use the things in our lives.

And if we’re in the Lord, That goes back to trust too. Then we have to trust that he is working in our lives and he’s not because he is not a God of confusion. I agree with that. Mm-hmm he is not a God of confusion. He’s not here to lead us astray or to trick us. We’re not in this world to go, okay.

Where’s the hidden little treasure map because you’re trying to confuse us and aha. Finally figured it out. It’s no. Hey Lord, I’m gonna quiet myself enough to be aware of you and be listening. to see the movements that you’re doing in my life to realize you are providing me clarity. And a lot of that’s just back to prayer.

And where’s your relationship with Christ mm-hmm and what are you rooting yourself in that you can be quiet enough to [00:23:00] recognize that mm-hmm . Yeah, and I think that’s the challenge we all have to do, or to just be humble enough, you know, to go back and go. Yeah, I messed up again. But I know God, doesn’t say, like you said, not to give up this, isn’t the time to give up.

This is the time to equip ourselves to figure it out and say, I’m gonna get up and I’m gonna try again, because I believe in, in Christ’s mercy, like, like, I mean, that’s a huge other paradox I screwed up. I should be damned to hell, but there is mercy. Yeah. So even in this life that I should get up and try again.

Yes. Cuz he tells us to, he tells us to take up our cross and to follow. And when we fall to get up and try again, just like we tell a little kid learning to walk it’s okay. You fell. Get let’s do it again. We, we cheer for those babies. Come on. Mm-hmm walk to mama. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s getting at what you’re trying to say though.

No, I think so. Do you have another

Grace: one? I ha I was thinking of a few other, I, one of my favorites is like you, what’s the, why can’t I think of the Bible, the scripture verse, like he’ll return it to you a hundred. Oh like tithing. Yeah. And just like, that’s something that I’ve definitely seen in my life when it’s like, when you just give something up, [00:24:00] it comes back to you a hundred fold.

Like that’s just spent like, that’s like, it doesn’t make sense to be like, I’m going to give up some of my time. Right. Not just tithe, but just like, even like, I’m going to surrender this because it’s the Lords. And then you get so much back and be like, I’m gonna give up this in life. And then you get it back in a different, maybe a different way, but so much more fully than you had it.

Like the. there’s that picture of like having the fake pearls and Jesus is like, can I have them? And he’s got real pearls behind his back, like, right. I heard that little story in a, at a retreat once, you know, and it’s like, I don’t wanna give it up. And it’s like, but if you trust, you’re gonna get back so much.

Right. More. And so, yes, you’re, you’re sacrificing and you’re giving away, but that’s rewarded. And that shouldn’t, that shouldn’t make sense. Be like, well, I’m giving something away. And then I’m like getting back even. Not even equal, like right. I don’t know. Or ah, what was another one? I heard

Christy: another one like that, where I was just reading last night on a business page actually about how do we look at Sundays?

Like how do that, she was just like taking a [00:25:00] poll more of like, do you do Sundays completely work free. Completely not. And anyway, you could go in a whole thing of how. envision that, or do you do little bits or not? And somebody, you know, I shared some of my philosophy and, but I love the, the story that somebody else shared was one that their grandpa said that back.

They, the grandfather was challenged by someone to close on Sunday and be completely closed. He owned a shop of some sort or a grocery. And, and the person who said this. I will promise. I promise you, the Lord will be faithful for you. If you close that you will make more in the six days than you do by being open the seventh day.

And he’s, he felt convicted enough to do that and he shut on Sundays and it was true. Mm-hmm he? And he never looked back because his, he was abundant enough. In those pro prosperous enough that he never needed that because he had ended up making more money in six days than he was by being open seven days.

And I think, I think that goes, I [00:26:00] don’t, all of this goes back to where is our level of trust and faith, just from the examples you gave. And I think, I don’t know for me, I try to simplify it and try to go. This is where. we are human and we want human answers to things that don’t make sense. And God’s just really keeps asking us to trust and be faithful.

And I, I, I, yeah, there’s just, there’s so many things I think we could go through more and more, but like, yeah. Why would you know that type of thing work or why, why when we serve there’s another good one that your dad and I have talked about from even when we were younger, like how do kids who go on mission trips and give up all of these things?

like, I remember going to Mexico where your dad was in Honduras or different places where like, it’s just not ideal or it’s totally out of our comfort zone. So some of it is removing them from their comfort zone, but they come back and they have these profound experiences. Mm-hmm and all they did was go and serve.

They didn’t have a hot dog for, you know, or a hamburger for three weeks. They never drank Coke for three weeks. They came back. They were, you know, in their, they were [00:27:00] uncomfortable. They were not in this situation. So a lot of it is taking ’em out of your comfort zone. I get that. But the other part is that they’re giving of themselves to just serve.

And so like, we see that with tithing, when we’re giving away how much we give away, we get that much in return. Mm-hmm and I just think, or more. Yes or more. I agree. And, and it doesn’t make sense, but I think it, in some ways, I don’t know, I look at it and go, that’s the beauty of our faith. We have mm-hmm story after story of how all

Grace: of this is true.

And I think that’s like, why I love it, cuz it’s just like, that’s the, like you said, just the beauty of our faith of these things that like seem so complex and yet are simple and seem not to work, but, but yet are true. And I just like that, like, it’s just fun to see. Ways the Lord makes everything work.

It’s like, I don’t know. It’s just entertaining and fun for me to see. Maybe that sounds weird, but I get nerdy about it. Like, or just even like, I feel like some of the same slides are paradoxes just in how you know, [00:28:00] someone’s called out into the desert to never see people again, and to just sit there and pray.

And other people are called to live on the streets and give everything away. And I guess even if you’re living out, but just think things where like you would think, be like, well, like in a. Or not thinking too far into it brain, it’s just like, well, aren’t you, isn’t there supposed to be like a certain life you live as a Christian, so why are they two completely different?

It’s like, well, cuz God called them to different things and it’s exactly what he needed. But it seems to contradict to be like, well, why there’s such different lives? And yet they’re both the Christian life. Like what? And it’s like, yeah, cuz that’s what’s cause that’s the body of, of Christ, right? Yeah. And that’s what we do.

And that’s, what’s so entertaining, not entertaining, but like interesting is better word. To me, especially like in life with friends where you’re like, well, why in that very similar situation did, my friend was called to do this. But when I was in a similar situation, I, I was called to do this. It’s like, well, cuz it it’s, that seems to contradict that God would call us to do different things for the same thing or, you know, something like that.

It’s like, no, that’s just what [00:29:00] he needed in that situation. What he or not needed, he doesn’t need us, but what he wanted from you and for that situation to be the best it could be was to trust him. And, and that was. Action rather than their action. That was different. Like, I don’t know. I just, I like it instead of being like, this is stupid and doesn’t make sense.

It’s like, I like how it doesn’t. It does. And does not make sense, I guess.

Christy: Yeah. I think that’s the beauty of, like you said, our faith in that we love that it’s, it’s, it’s the body of Christ working together and I love. that scripture passage of, you know, the whole thing. We need a head, we need an arm, we need a, you know, and without those things we don’t function correctly.

Yeah. So going back to the same thing, I mean, I think when I was younger, even a younger mom, like I just didn’t understand the saints. Cause I thought I, I thought of it more as as God, almost like I would have to be sinless. I’d have to be that. Like, I didn’t understand when people are like, we’re called to be saints.

We’re all supposed to be Saint. And I was like, I just don’t get that. [00:30:00] And I, I think it’s still evolving and you you’d start to learn about more and saints and how they’re all different and different call to. And I think that’s the beauty of Christ weaving this body of Christ body of Christ through us and us all being part of.

You know, the same body with different roles and different functions. But also the tapestry, like you give the example of your friends that he is weaving. I think, I think of like Horton, here’s a who, you know, mm-hmm, when they’re yelling, we are here, we are here. Yeah. And then it zooms out, you know, how the movie zooms out from being on their little.

World to the fluff on this little dandelion to like the world. Now I think of that with God. Like if we had that perspective, we’re Horton and we’re yelling out, we are here and all we can see is all we have here. So all these paradoxes seem to not make any sense, but if we had a lens of God and zoomed out, mm-hmm , that’s where our trust and faith comes in that he’s waving this beautiful tapestry.

And, and all of a sudden it makes sense, like, well, of course it would have to go that way. Of course this friend was faced with the same problem and needed do that because [00:31:00] then you needed to do the opposite. Yeah. Or whatever.

Grace: Well, and then even we know that now, like even just looking at scripture where it’s like, well, of course he needed to die so that he could rise, but just think of like the disciples following yous for three years.

And they’re like, what? Right. Like, you know, and, or just seeing him do all these miracles, or maybe sometimes it’s like, well, why’d you heal there, but you didn’t heal here?

Christy: Or, or why did he need to, to. to ascend. Why couldn’t he just stay? Yeah, like I know he has to go make a, you know, prepare a place for us.

And in some ways that’s very comforting. I’m leaving, preparing a place for you. But in a lot of ways, I’ve had discussions with, you know, friends that it’s like, but he abandoned them, but he didn’t. He said he was sending a, you know, a counselor, a convictor or comforter, the holy spirit came, but yet in our human.

In our linearness of just seeing like, well, no, you were healing, you were gaining followers. Why would you just up and leave the cause? Yeah. You know, like, yeah. We don’t see

Grace: full. Yeah. And so it’s like right now it’s like encouraging, like right now I can’t see it all, but. [00:32:00] I can see what at the time the disciples and apostles did not see, they now see obviously, but like at that time they were walking through and they just had to trust and be like, somehow this all makes sense.

I don’t know how, but it does. And you know, and maybe at times they were like, maybe at times they’re like, oh, this is, yeah, exactly. Like Thomas, where they’re like, this doesn’t make sense. This is stupid.

Christy: Be with you in this room. Yeah. I’m just gonna come later. And I mean, aren’t, we all, Thomas’s in our life at different points and, you know, I think.

that’s the beauty, even now. Why isn’t Christ coming now? Our world is in such shambles. Now isn’t this one. He should return mm-hmm and I think we have to look very deeply at our own lives and, and take the plank out instead of taking the sliver outta the world’s eyes. Like, what do I still need to learn here?

What do I still need to gain and be aware of? Because obviously I’m still here, so there’s still work for me, you know, to do. Refinement with the re you know, the refiner’s fire with that has to happen within me. Mm-hmm [00:33:00] and I don’t know. I think that goes back to slowing down and bringing back. the point of trying to find those extraordinary times that we can make our lives holy in our ordinary lives.

Where can I make this, this thing today? Extraordinary Lord, where can I be your vessel? Where can I, you know, how am I gonna serve you today? How do I wanna show up? in the small things, because I do think sometimes these, I love to sit down and I love having this discussion with you. But then at other times it’s like, no, I just need the simplicity of, you know, how to raise.

Three year old to love Jesus or my seven year old to be quiet during mass, because he’s supposed to re receive first communion and first confession this year, like, he can’t understand this, but I can make this moment. That’s ordinary holy by choosing to have this attitude or being this extra patience.

And, and so, I don’t know. So a lot of this comes down to trust and,

Grace: and faith that, and for me, it’s like mystery. Like we talk about the mysteries of the faith and you know, some of it and some of it you don’t, and it’s it’s trust and you’ll have [00:34:00] the full. Of knowledge mm-hmm eventually. Yes. You know, and so I just, I don’t know, I’ve learned to love that instead of like, be frustrated with that.

Christy: And that’s good. I think it’s great that you can embrace it and we can have these discussions and, and talk through it and know. try to find some more intellectual conversation. Yeah. But I think next time we’ll have to invite somebody else on that can go. Okay. Let’s go back to your episode. That’s that?

I’m here. No, I’m not nervous. I just really want more intellectual of like, okay, this is why. And we can have this discussion of my non intellect. Because I like discussing it. Yeah. And see how we see it.

Grace: Well, and that’s kind of the point of our pie, cuz we’re like, we’re not trying to be, I mean, it is fun sometimes to get professional and be like, oh, I researched this, but it’s like, here’s just how it applies to my daily life.

This is what I think about. I know this is part of our faith paradoxes and I don’t have the theology books on it, but this is what I think about it. And this is how it applies to my life. And this is how I found beauty in it. Yes. And. I think it’s awesome. Yeah. And that’s kind of the point, I think.

Christy: Totally.

So listeners, we hope you found this interesting. Like we like to discuss and go back and [00:35:00] forth. Mom and daughter

here.

Grace: I like to get nerdy a little bit. Yeah. So might, maybe that’s when I’m like it’s so interest or like entertaining. It’s more, it’s just me getting nerdy. That’s what? No, it’s fine. Which I, but I like, I like

Christy: hearing your perspective and trying to offer my non theologian perspective and just, I’m

Grace: not a theologian either.

We’re both not

Christy: theologians, right. Just my mom, my mom, ness on it and how I envision and see it. But we hope that you enjoyed it too. And that you’ll. Text and comment and review us passes along to our friends and say, how can we tear this one apart? We need to come on as a guest next

Grace: time. Yeah. Messages. If you Scott accent came out there.

I mom, not scotch. You’re not either. I’m not either. I’m Irish. I am. I am. Oh, you are. Oh, we talked about this. Oh my goodness. Anyway, I’m talking 4th of July, how much we are of everything. All the anyways, the big Like comment, subscribe, follow us on Instagram. Find our Facebook page, email us at thanks mom, podcast, Gmail.

We forgot to check, but I actually have the right computer this time so I can check. But if you wanna be a guest with us, we would love to. Talk like [00:36:00] this with anyone. So yeah, shoot us a message on any of those platforms and we will be having it is thanks, mom, podcast, gmail.com. I can verify. Okay. And on

Christy: my website@ christinambrown.com, I’m gonna have on our podcast page there that we have on the website christinambrown.com slash podcast.

We are gonna put up a calendar on there in the next few weeks. We’ll let you know when that goes live. And so then if you want to schedule a time with us to be a guest, we will put those on there hopefully for the summer. Yeah. And then into the fall when grace is back. So look for those probably I, I would think by August they should be up there so that we can do that.

And yeah, we’re so glad we’re here and we’ll see you next time on the podcast. The thanks mom

Grace: podcast. Bye.